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I've spent 10 years in Marine Corps four

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years working with the Air Force as a

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civilian

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doing experimental testing on aircraft

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since my Marine Corps days I was a pilot

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in the service

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and a fighter pilot and fought in World

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War II after late in the latter part of

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World War II and the Korean War conflict

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after I got out of the Marine Corps I

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took a job with the Air Force at

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Wright-Patterson

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do an experimental flight testing on

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various different modifications and Tech

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orders that they had

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Incorporated an aircraft various

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different aircraft f-89

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back then the beef B-47

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f-102 in those aircraft

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well I was at uh

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Wright-Patterson of course I was

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approached by a individual that

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and I I'm not going to mention his name

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to determine if I wanted to work in a an

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area and just

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new creative things okay and apparently

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that was the flying disc simulator

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what they had done they had selected

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several of us in a reassigned me to a

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link Aviation which was a simulator

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manufacturer

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at that time they were building what

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they call the c11b

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and f-102 simulator b47 simulator and so

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forth

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and they wanted us to get the experience

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before we

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actually started work on the flying disc

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simulator

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which I spent 30 some years working on

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the simulator wasn't actually functional

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until around 1958.

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where

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the simulator was actually operable

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craft that they used to build

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which is the 30 meter one was the one

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that the crashed and uh

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Arizona

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back in 53 or 52 I think it was 53.

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that's the one they used that's the

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first one that they took out to the test

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site

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uh it landed about 15 miles from which

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it used to be an Army Air Base

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uh which is now defunct army base I

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but that particular craft there were

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some problems with number one getting it

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on the flatbed to take it up to area 51.

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they couldn't get it across the dam

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because of the road

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it had to be bars across the you know

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the Colorado River at the time and then

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taken up to

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uh where people go now up

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up 93

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out the area 51 which was uh just being

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really constructed at the time

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and taken down those dirt roads and out

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out to that particular area of the test

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site

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there were four uh aliens aboard that

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thing

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and those aliens went to Los Alamos

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and they put certain people into their

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in there with them people that uh

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you know were astrophysicists you know

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just general scientists you know

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to ask them questions uh the funny the

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way the story was told to me was there

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was only one of them that would talk to

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any to

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to any of these scientists that they put

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in the lab with them only one of the

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aliens the rest wouldn't talk to anybody

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or you know even have a conversation

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with them

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you know first they thought you know it

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was all you know ESP or you know

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what do I want us what do I want to say

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uh telepathy yeah mental telepathy but

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you know most of that's

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that is kind of a joke to me because

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they actually speak

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uh

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maybe not like we do but they'd actually

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speak and can converse you know

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the difference between this aircraft and

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or this disc and other other discs that

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they had looked at

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was that it was much simpler design

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in the simulator it was one one big

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thing different

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the thing that like Lazar calls the

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reactor okay we didn't have a react we

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had a we had a space in a thing that

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looked like the reactor but that wasn't

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the thing we operated the simulator with

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we operated with six

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uh

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large capacitors

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that were charged

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with a million volts each says there

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were six million volts in those

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capacitors their largest capacitors ever

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built

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these particular capacitors they last

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for 30 minutes so you could get in there

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and actually

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work the controls and do what you had to

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to uh

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get the aircraft or get the simulator

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did this operate okay

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actually when it was operable

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it would lift off the ball about

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a certain amount of

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there was a dimension there that we had

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that had actually lifted up and it could

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actually turn

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you know a certain certain amount of

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degrees left to right or whatever

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in a simulator now uh you'll notice that

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uh

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there are no seat belts right

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uh and the same thing with the actual

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craft

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no seat belts you don't need seat belts

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because when you fly one of these things

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upside down there's no upside down like

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in a regular aircraft you just don't

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feel it

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uh you have your own gravitational feel

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right inside

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so if you're flying upside down

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to you you're right side up

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you're one ending Windows the only place

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we had any uh visibility at all and it

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was done with uh

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with cameras or videos type things at

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that time

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was in the turret in the turret section

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takes a lot of time because of the area

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and the smallness of it

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just to raise your hand it becomes

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complicated you have to be

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trained

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train with your mind you know to accept

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what you're going to actually feel and

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so there's some perceptual distortion

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there's a lot of distortion yeah

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seeing just moving about it's it's a

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after a while after you get used to it

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not only you and you do it it's it's

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it's simple

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you just

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you got to know where everything is you

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know and you got to understand what's

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going to happen

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to your body it's no different than

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you know accepting the g-forces you know

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when you're flying a aircraft that are

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coming out of a dive you know and that

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kind of thing it's a

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it's a whole new ball game

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did our flight Crews ever take one of

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these discs out into space

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you know I don't know that

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I don't I don't really know that I I

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just I'm sure they have

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uh I'm saying it probably took uh took a

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while to train

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enough of the people or

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sufficient time

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the whole big problem with this with the

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disc is that it's so exacting in its

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design and so forth

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and it can't be used say with uh it

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can't be used as a

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like we use aircraft today with uh

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dropping bombs and and

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you know having machine guns you know on

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the wings and that kind of stuff

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uh it's uh the design is so exacting

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that you can't add anything you can't

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it's got to be

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there's a there's a big problem in the

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in the design

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uh

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of where things are put

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say you know that where the centered

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aircraft is and that type of thing even

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the fact that we raised it three feet so

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the taller guys could get in and stuff

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the actual ship was extended

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back to its original configuration but

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actually raised

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we had a long period of introduction

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into meetings you know say an EV e is an

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alien

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and I I call them j-rod of course that's

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what they call them but that wasn't his

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you know I don't know if that was his

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real name or not but that's the name

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that the the linguists gave him you know

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as a

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because so he knew J Rod you know

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and I I did draw a sketch of him when he

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was before I left him in a meeting but

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you know I I provided it to some people

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but that was my

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my impression of what I saw

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he'd sound just like if you spoke you

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sound like you

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you know he he's like one of the you

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know a parrot but but he 'd try and

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answer your question you know

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a lot of times you'd have a hard time

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understanding you know because

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if you didn't put it on paper and

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explain yourself

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half the time he couldn't give you a

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good a good question good answer

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well the preparation was uh you know

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basically uh

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going through first of all I went

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through all of the different

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nationalities in the world right just

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you know these whatever you know human

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nationalities yeah human nationality you

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know

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then they got into going into uh other

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forms of life you know even down to

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you know animals and that type of thing

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and the fact that uh you know this this

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this j-rod had

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his skin was pinkish but a little bit

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rough you know and that kind of stuff

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not

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or to me it didn't look horrible looking

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some of the guys

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you know that was in the particular

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groups that I was in they never even

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made it you know as far as I was

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concerned

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you know when they gave you the

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psychological question you know I just

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answered them the way I felt and I had

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no problem you know

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and that's what they wanted to know

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you know if you'd become

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uh

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like you know hey here's an alien he's

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he's from here and I don't know what you

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know one of those kind of things you

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know but it never bothered me you know

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so what kind do you know what kind of

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scientific advice he would give the the

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crew that was building or back

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engineering these basically it was the

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only engineering advice or science

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advice

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you know say for example I performed the

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calculation

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and there's a I spoke of a book that uh

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it's not a book it's a big

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assembly of various different divisions

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of

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on gravitational technology okay

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and uh

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the the key element in there

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all the information wasn't there because

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even our guys are people that were the

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top mathematicians and stuff couldn't

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figure some of this stuff out so we

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would take it and you know we'd have to

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with each design you know there's a

286
00:12:05,269 --> 00:12:01,260
requirement requirement for calculations

287
00:12:06,710 --> 00:12:05,279
and we'd have to prove by calculations

288
00:12:08,750 --> 00:12:06,720
you know that this thing's going to

289
00:12:10,130 --> 00:12:08,760
operate no different than anything else

290
00:12:14,150 --> 00:12:10,140
we do

291
00:12:16,370 --> 00:12:14,160
and sometimes you get into a spot where

292
00:12:18,530 --> 00:12:16,380
you try and try and try it even if you

293
00:12:20,509 --> 00:12:18,540
use the formulas to come up with this

294
00:12:21,949 --> 00:12:20,519
thing that they provide you it wouldn't

295
00:12:23,630 --> 00:12:21,959
work

296
00:12:25,069 --> 00:12:23,640
and that's where he'd come in you know

297
00:12:27,110 --> 00:12:25,079
the

298
00:12:30,889 --> 00:12:27,120
tell him to look at this and

299
00:12:39,470 --> 00:12:35,829
the last 40 years or so or six years

300
00:12:41,930 --> 00:12:39,480
maybe there's a

301
00:12:43,850 --> 00:12:41,940
I'd say 40 Years anyway

302
00:12:46,910 --> 00:12:43,860
not counting the simulators I'm talking

303
00:12:50,030 --> 00:12:46,920
about actual craft is probably

304
00:12:53,810 --> 00:12:52,250
two or three dozen various different

305
00:12:56,990 --> 00:12:53,820
sizes

306
00:12:59,629 --> 00:12:57,000
that we've built or that we have that we

307
00:13:01,970 --> 00:12:59,639
built okay

308
00:13:03,650 --> 00:13:01,980
I don't know much about the ones that

309
00:13:05,750 --> 00:13:03,660
you know that they brought here

310
00:13:07,430 --> 00:13:05,760
I know about that one out of Kingman but

311
00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:07,440
that's about it

312
00:13:11,810 --> 00:13:10,560
and uh I know the company that hauled it

313
00:13:15,170 --> 00:13:11,820
out of there and

314
00:13:18,949 --> 00:13:16,790
a couple different versions that they

315
00:13:21,170 --> 00:13:18,959
use one was a chemical version

316
00:13:22,970 --> 00:13:21,180
one was a solid version

317
00:13:24,889 --> 00:13:22,980
and I don't even know the chemistry of

318
00:13:27,410 --> 00:13:24,899
the chemical version but there's uh

319
00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:27,420
there's one with that operates with with

320
00:13:33,350 --> 00:13:29,600
other chemicals

321
00:13:35,269 --> 00:13:33,360
uh with certain chemicals

322
00:13:37,910 --> 00:13:35,279
actually what they've done with I think

323
00:13:39,110 --> 00:13:37,920
with these triangles that people have

324
00:13:41,569 --> 00:13:39,120
seen as

325
00:13:43,490 --> 00:13:41,579
they've got like two or three of say a

326
00:13:45,590 --> 00:13:43,500
30 meter crafts

327
00:13:47,870 --> 00:13:45,600
that are in this

328
00:13:49,490 --> 00:13:47,880
in the center of it and the outside

329
00:13:51,590 --> 00:13:49,500
perimeter you know you could put

330
00:13:53,990 --> 00:13:51,600
anything you want as long as

331
00:13:55,250 --> 00:13:54,000
these particular ones are made to design

332
00:13:56,870 --> 00:13:55,260
criteria

333
00:13:58,910 --> 00:13:56,880
and they'll operate

334
00:14:01,790 --> 00:13:58,920
then it's more or less all that other

335
00:14:03,650 --> 00:14:01,800
stuff on the outside is tag along

336
00:14:05,210 --> 00:14:03,660
but I'm sure if they put a large weapon

337
00:14:07,310 --> 00:14:05,220
up there and fired it it would probably

338
00:14:11,509 --> 00:14:07,320
you know

339
00:14:13,430 --> 00:14:11,519
not work or they'd kill himself

340
00:14:15,590 --> 00:14:13,440
there's there are certain reasons for

341
00:14:17,530 --> 00:14:15,600
the secrecy I I could understand that no

342
00:14:20,150 --> 00:14:17,540
different than

343
00:14:21,530 --> 00:14:20,160
you know the first atomic bomb that they

344
00:14:24,170 --> 00:14:21,540
built

345
00:14:25,430 --> 00:14:24,180
but uh you know they're getting so far

346
00:14:27,410 --> 00:14:25,440
ahead now

347
00:14:29,389 --> 00:14:27,420
with aircraft design and people have

348
00:14:31,910 --> 00:14:29,399
come up and they're visualizing and

349
00:14:34,190 --> 00:14:31,920
seeing some of the design aspects that

350
00:14:37,490 --> 00:14:34,200
are put in some of the aircraft today

351
00:14:39,530 --> 00:14:37,500
and eventually I'm saying

352
00:14:41,930 --> 00:14:39,540
and like I told you got your gentleman

353
00:14:44,030 --> 00:14:41,940
earlier that 2003

354
00:14:45,170 --> 00:14:44,040
most of this stuff will be out

355
00:14:47,870 --> 00:14:45,180
out

356
00:14:50,030 --> 00:14:47,880
in everybody's plate to look at

357
00:14:53,030 --> 00:14:50,040
maybe not the way that

358
00:14:54,889 --> 00:14:53,040
everybody expects it but in some manner

359
00:14:57,230 --> 00:14:54,899
they they determine appropriate you know

360
00:14:59,329 --> 00:14:57,240
that show everybody hey look at what we

361
00:15:01,129 --> 00:14:59,339
got so you'll be surprised you think

362
00:15:02,930 --> 00:15:01,139
this is the year 2000 that we're doing

363
00:15:05,329 --> 00:15:02,940
this interview so you think within three

364
00:15:07,790 --> 00:15:05,339
years that the public will be told I

365
00:15:09,230 --> 00:15:07,800
said this years ago 2003 and the reason

366
00:15:13,430 --> 00:15:09,240
why I said that

367
00:15:15,050 --> 00:15:13,440
the document I signed ends in 2003.

368
00:15:18,189 --> 00:15:15,060
and you're not the only one that signed

369
00:15:24,410 --> 00:15:22,430
see this uh this I call it fogator

370
00:15:25,670 --> 00:15:24,420
that's what they call it fundamentals of

371
00:15:29,530 --> 00:15:25,680
gravitational

372
00:15:35,629 --> 00:15:31,370
techniques

373
00:15:37,790 --> 00:15:35,639
I'm sure that manual now is this

374
00:15:41,210 --> 00:15:37,800
expanded or no different than anything

375
00:15:43,269 --> 00:15:41,220
else that they build for design criteria

376
00:15:46,189 --> 00:15:43,279
because

377
00:15:48,350 --> 00:15:46,199
anything we do today we have to have a

378
00:15:50,629 --> 00:15:48,360
design criteria manual you know and they

379
00:15:53,509 --> 00:15:50,639
put all the information in that

380
00:15:57,829 --> 00:15:53,519
and if you ever get one of these volumes

381
00:16:00,009 --> 00:15:57,839
of this these documents you'd be a

382
00:16:03,470 --> 00:16:00,019
be on top of the world

383
00:16:05,329 --> 00:16:03,480
get out of service I worked

384
00:16:08,269 --> 00:16:05,339
for the government you know

385
00:16:11,509 --> 00:16:08,279
as a test pilot

386
00:16:14,389 --> 00:16:11,519
a various different particular aircraft

387
00:16:18,170 --> 00:16:14,399
while I did that particular activity the

388
00:16:20,389 --> 00:16:18,180
I was asked if I would mind working on

389
00:16:23,870 --> 00:16:20,399
some simulators and I thought that was a

390
00:16:26,569 --> 00:16:23,880
good idea good for my future so I did

391
00:16:28,730 --> 00:16:26,579
we uh

392
00:16:30,710 --> 00:16:28,740
we were then reassigned it was just not

393
00:16:32,449 --> 00:16:30,720
myself there were several other fellas

394
00:16:35,750 --> 00:16:32,459
like myself engineers

395
00:16:37,730 --> 00:16:35,760
that were reassigned to certain

396
00:16:39,710 --> 00:16:37,740
companies here in the United States on

397
00:16:42,069 --> 00:16:39,720
the various different simulators that

398
00:16:44,509 --> 00:16:42,079
were that they were making for

399
00:16:47,210 --> 00:16:44,519
the various new aircrafts that they were

400
00:16:48,970 --> 00:16:47,220
building for example you know the f-89

401
00:16:53,629 --> 00:16:48,980
f94

402
00:16:55,009 --> 00:16:53,639
and f-102 in a group of others we spent

403
00:16:57,170 --> 00:16:55,019
uh

404
00:17:00,610 --> 00:16:57,180
probably close to three and a half four

405
00:17:03,949 --> 00:17:00,620
years just in training on simulators

406
00:17:06,049 --> 00:17:03,959
and uh just exactly you know how a

407
00:17:09,110 --> 00:17:06,059
similar an actual Simulator for these

408
00:17:11,689 --> 00:17:09,120
aircrafts work you know and the new

409
00:17:12,949 --> 00:17:11,699
designs that came along after they

410
00:17:15,669 --> 00:17:12,959
thought that we were trained

411
00:17:19,130 --> 00:17:15,679
sufficiently then we were asked to do

412
00:17:22,030 --> 00:17:19,140
another project which was more or less

413
00:17:26,270 --> 00:17:22,040
in my field as a mechanical design

414
00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:30,110
join metal together without glue nuts

415
00:17:35,210 --> 00:17:32,400
you know or any of it he's just so forth

416
00:17:40,549 --> 00:17:37,909
for aircraft purposes to the indication

417
00:17:42,549 --> 00:17:40,559
was was to make the aircraft lighter

418
00:17:45,350 --> 00:17:42,559
okay

419
00:17:46,789 --> 00:17:45,360
this this course is uh several years

420
00:17:48,710 --> 00:17:46,799
going on in the meantime of course

421
00:17:50,870 --> 00:17:48,720
security classifications were going on

422
00:17:52,909 --> 00:17:50,880
you know as far as we were concerned and

423
00:17:55,490 --> 00:17:52,919
just the individuals that were going to

424
00:17:57,650 --> 00:17:55,500
work on these particular projects before

425
00:18:00,650 --> 00:17:57,660
going to the to the actual facility

426
00:18:03,010 --> 00:18:00,660
we're at done this activity

427
00:18:05,270 --> 00:18:03,020
we

428
00:18:07,789 --> 00:18:05,280
developed this particular process of

429
00:18:08,690 --> 00:18:07,799
joining this material it took quite some

430
00:18:11,270 --> 00:18:08,700
time

431
00:18:13,010 --> 00:18:11,280
over a period of about four years

432
00:18:15,590 --> 00:18:13,020
and then it was indicated to us that

433
00:18:17,570 --> 00:18:15,600
we'd go on a special project in New

434
00:18:19,310 --> 00:18:17,580
Mexico which we did

435
00:18:21,409 --> 00:18:19,320
and it was about three or four years

436
00:18:24,830 --> 00:18:21,419
after that we had gotten there that we

437
00:18:27,110 --> 00:18:24,840
found out that these were simulators for

438
00:18:29,870 --> 00:18:27,120
that we would be Engineers on simulators

439
00:18:32,150 --> 00:18:29,880
for flying discs

440
00:18:35,110 --> 00:18:32,160
there was one particular project they

441
00:18:37,789 --> 00:18:35,120
worked on associated with that disc was

442
00:18:40,330 --> 00:18:37,799
several years of course it's very time

443
00:18:43,549 --> 00:18:40,340
consuming in the translation of

444
00:18:47,470 --> 00:18:43,559
scientific data has provided to us by

445
00:18:51,350 --> 00:18:47,480
the Grays a specific type of Gray

446
00:18:54,230 --> 00:18:51,360
uh has this information was given to our

447
00:18:56,029 --> 00:18:54,240
scientists and various different

448
00:18:58,850 --> 00:18:56,039
Engineers that we had no association

449
00:19:02,390 --> 00:18:58,860
with but they were doing what they call

450
00:19:03,470 --> 00:19:02,400
a copy engineering the copy engineering

451
00:19:06,710 --> 00:19:03,480
was

452
00:19:09,830 --> 00:19:06,720
a process where they had taken an item

453
00:19:11,630 --> 00:19:09,840
or a part portion of the craft and they

454
00:19:12,770 --> 00:19:11,640
were disassembly of writing their

455
00:19:14,930 --> 00:19:12,780
procedures

456
00:19:17,570 --> 00:19:14,940
and identifying certain things as they

457
00:19:19,250 --> 00:19:17,580
took it apart and how it related to from

458
00:19:20,510 --> 00:19:19,260
their science to our science and could

459
00:19:23,330 --> 00:19:20,520
we use that

460
00:19:24,230 --> 00:19:23,340
I spoke in a little lecture here a while

461
00:19:26,930 --> 00:19:24,240
back

462
00:19:29,270 --> 00:19:26,940
that no average pilot could fly a flying

463
00:19:32,630 --> 00:19:29,280
just because it was so

464
00:19:34,190 --> 00:19:32,640
complicated and so foreign to the

465
00:19:35,810 --> 00:19:34,200
individual pilot that there would be no

466
00:19:37,909 --> 00:19:35,820
way that he'd be able to

467
00:19:39,470 --> 00:19:37,919
hop in one even if they gave it to him

468
00:19:41,930 --> 00:19:39,480
and said here fly this

469
00:19:44,690 --> 00:19:41,940
consequently what we did we took their

470
00:19:47,830 --> 00:19:44,700
avionics and transferred into our

471
00:19:50,750 --> 00:19:47,840
science and our technology and used

472
00:19:52,970 --> 00:19:50,760
avionics that we know of as far as

473
00:19:55,970 --> 00:19:52,980
aircraft is concerned

474
00:19:58,070 --> 00:19:55,980
uh the

475
00:20:00,529 --> 00:19:58,080
basic principles and all this as far as

476
00:20:03,350 --> 00:20:00,539
the Ava address was concerned was no

477
00:20:06,409 --> 00:20:03,360
different than a regular aircraft that

478
00:20:08,570 --> 00:20:06,419
we have if you understand that uh

479
00:20:10,909 --> 00:20:08,580
uh

480
00:20:13,010 --> 00:20:10,919
say for example a fighter a fighter

481
00:20:14,810 --> 00:20:13,020
aircraft it's it's much different than a

482
00:20:16,930 --> 00:20:14,820
flying disc

483
00:20:20,570 --> 00:20:16,940
and there were certain uh

484
00:20:23,450 --> 00:20:20,580
situations that we had to uh

485
00:20:25,190 --> 00:20:23,460
resolve and basically we only looked at

486
00:20:27,230 --> 00:20:25,200
a couple different things because the

487
00:20:28,789 --> 00:20:27,240
flying disc only flies in about three

488
00:20:33,130 --> 00:20:28,799
different positions

489
00:20:37,669 --> 00:20:33,140
and that is uh at 65 degrees

490
00:20:39,350 --> 00:20:37,679
a flat horizontal and possibly vertical

491
00:20:41,510 --> 00:20:39,360
but it was very difficult to fly

492
00:20:44,990 --> 00:20:41,520
vertical the avionics that we developed

493
00:20:48,590 --> 00:20:45,000
for that was for the 65 degrees pitching

494
00:20:51,590 --> 00:20:48,600
yaw and flat flight

495
00:20:55,250 --> 00:20:51,600
did you ever see this by yourself

496
00:20:59,450 --> 00:20:55,260
I saw this from a distance

497
00:21:04,430 --> 00:21:02,930
uh if I was describing a disc for you to

498
00:21:07,390 --> 00:21:04,440
so you'd understand what we're looking

499
00:21:10,549 --> 00:21:07,400
at if you did see the Bob Lazar poster

500
00:21:13,490 --> 00:21:10,559
uh very very similar

501
00:21:15,409 --> 00:21:13,500
this facility I was worked at is is I'd

502
00:21:17,990 --> 00:21:15,419
say as far as secrecy is concerned is

503
00:21:20,510 --> 00:21:18,000
much tighter than possibly even that was

504
00:21:23,990 --> 00:21:20,520
here and some of the other facilities

505
00:21:26,390 --> 00:21:24,000
you know in this country the

506
00:21:29,149 --> 00:21:26,400
the entrance and the locations and the

507
00:21:31,250 --> 00:21:29,159
scenario on on say hey guys you know

508
00:21:35,210 --> 00:21:31,260
here this is you know this is this is

509
00:21:40,669 --> 00:21:38,090
okay that's what the ship looks like as

510
00:21:42,289 --> 00:21:40,679
far as entering the ship no

511
00:21:44,570 --> 00:21:42,299
but that was a disc

512
00:21:49,570 --> 00:21:44,580
how far away was it

513
00:21:55,970 --> 00:21:52,250
it was just sitting on the ground

514
00:22:01,370 --> 00:21:59,510
what did you feel in the moment and saw

515
00:22:02,510 --> 00:22:01,380
it what did you what was the impression

516
00:22:05,149 --> 00:22:02,520
of it

517
00:22:09,049 --> 00:22:05,159
I had my impression was as an engineer

518
00:22:14,450 --> 00:22:11,810
have you ever seen any aliens

519
00:22:16,130 --> 00:22:14,460
we were introduced to Grays that were

520
00:22:19,610 --> 00:22:16,140
associated with the project but they

521
00:22:21,890 --> 00:22:19,620
were uh I could say that in a time that

522
00:22:23,510 --> 00:22:21,900
I spent maybe I'd seen the Grays half a

523
00:22:26,570 --> 00:22:23,520
dozen times or more

524
00:22:27,289 --> 00:22:26,580
but uh I have no more than 10 times I

525
00:22:29,870 --> 00:22:27,299
think

526
00:22:33,169 --> 00:22:29,880
but they were on uh

527
00:22:36,649 --> 00:22:33,179
the reason that we saw him was

528
00:22:38,690 --> 00:22:36,659
actually for us to get used to being

529
00:22:40,549 --> 00:22:38,700
associated with them okay it's no

530
00:22:42,230 --> 00:22:40,559
different than say going to Africa and

531
00:22:44,330 --> 00:22:42,240
seeing a bunch of big leaves

532
00:22:46,970 --> 00:22:44,340
and you know looking at those people for

533
00:22:47,930 --> 00:22:46,980
a while and then you know

534
00:22:49,730 --> 00:22:47,940
so it's

535
00:22:52,010 --> 00:22:49,740
this is a little different than that but

536
00:22:53,390 --> 00:22:52,020
it's the same same situation where

537
00:22:55,549 --> 00:22:53,400
you're seeing something that's a little

538
00:22:57,710 --> 00:22:55,559
bit different than us sitting in this

539
00:22:59,690 --> 00:22:57,720
room you know talking right now